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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Feb 2003 : 7:44:33 PM
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I understand that 2 valve Jawas came under attack at Eastern Creek. Apparently some w*nker discovered that Jawas have one more rib on the crankcase than an ESO, and protested the Jawa's eligibility.
Makwes you wonder if there are some people who are deliberately trying to destroy the sport. The cheapest way for anyone to race in historic events is to build a two valve Jawa into a replica featherbed frame. What's wrong with that? Do we all have to buy Andy Molnar Manxes to get a competitve ride in P3?
Seems ridiculous when Triumph 9 stud heads are 'allowed', even when this permits boring to 730cc, instead of the 650 achievable with an eight stud head.
IT'S ABOUT TIME WE HAD A GOOD LOOK AT 'THE RULES', AND WHO'S WRITING THEM!!
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Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2003 : 9:04:01 PM
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Alan, as a sidecar rider I would not know a Jawa from an ESO anyway. What are the details of the BIG FIN BUST?
But as for the rules the best way to achieve change is make a presentation in writing to the State Historic Commisions, do the phone calls and lobby for support. Thats what the people who want things changed do it. Sorry to appear a nigger in the wood pile, but somebody has been doing the lobbying better than others. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2003 : 03:20:44 AM
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John, For all intents and purposes a Jawa and an ESO are identical, except that the ESO has the letters cast into the rocker cover (and apparently the Jawa has an extra rib on the cases).
The ESO was the early motor (pre 62), Jawas were later manufacture.
People who have to protest to win a race really get up my nose, when they pick on minor things like this. What it means is that another source of motors for P3 bikes, is no longer available.
Unless you can find an original ESO, you can't use a Jawa. That doesn't mean that all the other guys using Jawa cranks, rods or pistons will have to stop racing with the illegal parts (or are they illegal?).
Apparently the rules must say that the engines must resemble pre 62 motors in every external detail, never mind that bikes like the Andy Molnar Manx only contain one original part, and nothing else actually fits a pre 62 Manx.
Nit picking like this can only be bad for the sport, it should be actively discouraged, the alternative is to go the way of NZ with 'purist rules', and only race genuine racing machinery.
They also actually BAN the other type of bike - something I don't agree with.
I'm not going to start lobbying the Historic Commissioners, however I want people accessing this forum to know my thoughts. If we have to lobby every aspect to get sense into the sport, we might as well forget it! |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2003 : 11:40:46 AM
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| What year were the Jawas made compared with the ESO's ? |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2003 : 10:59:13 AM
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I had a talk to Neil Street about when ESOs were made. Apparently they were made up to the mid sixties, then the Jawa was made.
The only differences were in the rocker box (and a lot of guys get the own cast up). The ESO crankcases were sand cast and were a bit thicker, the Jawa has the extra rib. Internally the idler pinion on the valve gear has two bearings in the Jawa, and two bronze bushes in the ESO. OTHERWISE THE ENGINES ARE IDENTICAL.
Not to use this source of engines would be criminal, apparently Jawa made about 15,000 engines before they made the 4 valve.
Anyone who protests on the basis that the engine is not a Pre 62 ESO but a 1965 Jawa would be an IDIOT. To be so small minded as to want to win this way, doesn't help the sport one bit.
There are still thousands of two valve Jawas around - let's use them! |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Former Member
deleted
79 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2003 : 1:44:15 PM
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There is nothing ground breaking here, plenty of people have retroed Jawas to look like ESO's. Change the rocker plate, change a plug and cover the cases with the primary.
Perhaps whats happened here is that someone has tried to run a motor with Jawa still on it in P3 without making any effort to make it comply. If thats the case then who's the idiot. |
Al Kidd |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2003 : 10:31:18 PM
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| Al, the story as I heard it, was that someone picked the extra rib on the crankcase. Apparently it's completely nonfunctional, but if the rocker cover has been changed it's the only way to know it's a Jawa engine. Personally, if I had a two valve Jawa engine in a bike I wouldn't bother changing the rocker cover unless I was riding in a championship. If someone needs to protest about the look of the motor to win a race, I wouldn't be bothered arguing. The result is still the same, even if the other guy takes the trophy home. Different thing if the eligibilty scrutineer won't let you run, but in that case I'd just put the bike back on the trailer. I race to have fun, and if I can compete fairly that's great, but this business of trying to pick something on you opposition's bike has got whiskers on it. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Former Member
deleted
79 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2003 : 11:34:41 PM
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Alan, I agree and disagree. If there is no performance gain, ie brakes, carbs, forks etc, as long as they look period you should be able to run them. Parts are getting expensive and hard to find.
But..we have all had to comply with the rules to get a log book, for some it was just a matter of taking some pictures, for others parts had to modified or changed to comply. I had to to take a 36mm Mikuni of the 500 and replace it with a 36mm Delorto, both carbs are out of the period but thems the rules.
I have no sympathy with anyone running Jawa who doesn't make the (very easy) effort to make it appear as a ESO. Seeing as I don't really know anything about this particular incident, if it had been made to look like an ESO then the scuitineer should be shafted with a pineapple. |
Al Kidd |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2003 : 7:06:24 PM
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Well I am going to try and convince the HMRAV committee to accept a perpetual trophy, at no expence to them, for the first machine that fits this type of criteria. If it dont work at least I can go down knowing there was no interst, rather than wondering about it.
As Teddy Roosevelt noted once " It is far better to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat" |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Former Member
deleted
79 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2003 : 8:02:32 PM
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| John. Cant knock you for trying, the ESO/Jawa thing should probably be approved, its no different than a lot of other things have have somehow got approved over the years, though I wonder if you should set your sights higher than the HMRAV. I'm not sure of the point of someone building a bike that is essentially a HMRAV class only, with limited opportunities to race it, otherwise it has to race P5 (thats where you're coming from isn't it?). Wouldn't it be better to push for early 2 valve Jawas to be approved for P3? |
Al Kidd |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2003 : 9:16:54 PM
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| Al, its very hard to get something acceptted all around Australia until your can prove its a goer somewhere. The idea initially was for it to be in the post classic era because of the disc brake set up. There may be 2 or 3 interested and I for one am prepared to try and get something going to see if there are any prepared to have a go with something different. Dont forget I may not get it up, the committee might say "Too Crazy Man, stick to the sidecars" |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2003 : 9:50:40 PM
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| There's one thing about this single cylinder class which might not be obvious. Some of the bikes might be eligible for INCA races when they're held here. And the bikes would also be eligible for Supermono, and Thunderbikes. So there are a few avenues for extra rides. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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