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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Feb 2003 : 3:59:43 PM
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This was put on the site in another topic " I really think we need to bring in a rule for historic racing, that the bikes must have fairing, racing seat, clipons, and rear sets. What turns up to the races these days is often poorly converted road bikes, they don't look anything like a racing bike!"
What are your thoughts?
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Allan
Site Moderator
National
599 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2003 : 4:41:50 PM
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| Gee well in the mid 50's any thing was the go yes Manx's AJS,velo bsa you name it and it was raced rudge most of these bikes were road based gigger's like Frank Spillar and his ridged frame short stroke TRIUMPH blowing of Hinton's yes all three of them even M Quincy got betten but that was A grade B and C grane again any thing but not as many nortons Ajs , most were naked but some had dust bin fairing's up to 1957 i think, then they WERE banded ( spose that rule is still in??)side cars were manx if you have a Bob but most were triumph a couple of Vincents Wes Brown had manx then went bach to a Triumph i think this was when class class went to 650cc? so triumph could have a go at 500 Manx's first Kneerler was ridden by Richard Franks and Roger Corne///// built by my self about 1960?? SO the Q was What is a race bike !! well thats for classic class, any bloody thing that runs At Fishermans bend c class had 80/100 entries for a race **** that was good fun!! Race bikes turning up being towed behind cars on trailers that quite often never made it home! and on sidecars with a platform fitted. gee they were the real racers who went for fun no mones about any think! |
Allan Greening |
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Former Member
deleted
79 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2003 : 7:05:10 PM
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| What no more Manxes with only aero screens, everyone has to go and buy a Dunstall fairing. What a load of rubbish. A bike becomes a race bike when it passes scrutineering and makes it to the track. Thats the way its always been and the way it always will be. |
Al Kidd |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2003 : 7:34:27 PM
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| If one of the factory teams turned up with some of the bikes being raced today, they'd be laughed out of existence. A lot of historic races these days look like Allpowers C grade in the early seventies - pretty disgusting. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2003 : 10:46:21 AM
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From off site this comment was made "I don't see this as a problem. Are you gonna ask Rex to put a fairing on his Hondas ?
I think "poorly converted " is the key point."
MH
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2003 : 12:55:49 PM
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From off site
"Obviously who ever wrote this has know knowledge or Idea of what the sport
is about ,motor cycles racing back in the forties and fifties ( unless
works machines ) didn't look as good as they do today and the nature of the
sport is to show people the types of machines that were raced in that era ." Toddy!
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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David
Site Administrator
Australia
999 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2003 : 1:05:31 PM
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John,
This is now twice you have put comments on that are "From off site". Who are the comments coming from? and what is the total message? They both appear to only be snippets of e-mails you have received.
I am sure the rest of the users/visitors here would like to know who has a bit to say, but will not get on and say it..
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Regards,
David
Webmaster & Owner of Classic Motorcycling Australia
Quote: I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted to be paid. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2003 : 3:20:09 PM
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| The messages are in the full context they were sent. MH is Martin Hone and Toddy Is Robert Todd. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2003 : 5:32:15 PM
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From off site again because I asked the question thru the email list of HMRAv "Are you serious John or are you just fishing for a bite ?
Do you really think that we have that many entrants to our Historic meetings that we can start turning away the ones that, and I quote " have poorly converted road bikes ".
Listen John just because someone can't afford or doesn't want to have a replica race machine doesn't mean that they are any less deserving than you or I in competing, after all they have shelled out for the helmet, leathers, boots, licence, etc...
Basically John in a nice sort of a way I'm saying Pull your head in mate, they're racing and having fun so who cares what their bikes look like.
Tony Marsden "
SO PERHAPS THERE IS NOT REALLY THE SUPPORT FOR THE CONCEPT AT ALL.
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2003 : 8:55:35 PM
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I appreciate that historic racing is about having fun, but I can't reconcile how one rider spends more on a year on historic racing than he ever spent in a full season of sponsoring a superbike.
When I look at Classic Racer magazine, I wonder at the difference from what is raced in UK and NZ, to what is raced in Australia. From the photos most of the P3 and P4 (equivalent fields) are immaculate in both countries overseas. Perhaps we need to decide whether we want to recreate an era, or whether we want to race updated historic machinery. I don't think you can have it both ways.
Incidently, I'd like to invite John Todd to join the forum, and if he has something to say to me, let him say it to be read by everyone. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2003 : 9:45:59 PM
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Let's see who knows something about historic racing in Victoria. I'm sending an email to David, John and Martin with a photo attachment. The photo was taken in October 1973 at Winton. The event was important to historic racing. What was the event? Who were the riders? Who won? Would David please put the photo on the Gallery Page?
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Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Former Member
deleted
79 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2003 : 11:16:51 PM
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| Alan, have you ever heard the line "flogging a dead horse", posting pictures and making challenges will make you look more like an idiot than an authority. You've lost this one and its time to move on. |
Al Kidd |
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Allan
Site Moderator
National
599 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2003 : 06:56:07 AM
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| classic bikes up to 1962 what good is a photo from 73 thats post classic! |
Allan Greening |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2003 : 08:15:26 AM
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| Allan, have a look at the photo, you'll find it interesting. There is no bike in it later than 1962. Again - what was the event? There is one rider obscured - Russell King. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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David
Site Administrator
Australia
999 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2003 : 08:38:19 AM
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Alan,
I have seen the photo, and it has classic bikes in it. They are not done up all nice and pretty, they are there to race.
But as Al said "flogging a dead horse". We all know where your passions are, but now would be a good time to sit back on this topic, and let others work out "What makes a Racing Bike" for themselves and let us all know.
Then when there is a clear mistake, just let the user know.
quote:
Originally posted by acotrel
I appreciate that historic racing is about having fun, but I can't reconcile how one rider spends more on a year on historic racing than he ever spent in a full season of sponsoring a superbike.
When I look at Classic Racer magazine, I wonder at the difference from what is raced in UK and NZ, to what is raced in Australia. From the photos most of the P3 and P4 (equivalent fields) are immaculate in both countries overseas. Perhaps we need to decide whether we want to recreate an era, or whether we want to race updated historic machinery. I don't think you can have it both ways.
Incidently, I'd like to invite John Todd to join the forum, and if he has something to say to me, let him say it to be read by everyone.
Did you mean John Todd or Robert Todd? Just it was Robert Todd that John mentioned.
It would be good if these people who have something to say, would not do it off line, but join and let the opinions be heard, are they not (to quote a phase) "Man enough" (sorry girls).. 
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Regards,
David
Webmaster & Owner of Classic Motorcycling Australia
Quote: I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted to be paid. |
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Allan
Site Moderator
National
599 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2003 : 09:07:38 AM
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| seen and 2 bike have incorrect type number plates! |
Allan Greening |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2003 : 1:28:22 PM
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| David, I often lift something from the site and send it to the HMRAV committee or even members. And so I get replies directly. I have drawn their attension to the site but for their own reasons they do not hook in. Perhaps they have restrictions on their computers at work if that is where they get email. But lets hope they do get involved at some time. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2003 : 5:28:24 PM
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The photo was taken by Alan Stone at an ordinary race meeting at Winton in October 1973. It was an exhibition race to publicise the introduction of Historic Road Racing proposed for 1974. I was on the Triumph with the fairing (first away in the push start), Russell King (obscured) found his bike hard to start so wasn't a threat, Strawd Thompson on the Manx got blown to the weeds, Richard Bendell on the Ex Ginger Molloy Manx fell off and badly broke his collar bone. The bloke on the near side was Steve Oszko, a top A grader. I was first away and waited for Oszko, who I knew I could outspeed, he passed me at a a lap time 2 seconds less than the old lap record, when he raced Toombs on the Henderson Matchless. I couldn't pass him and he won.
The point is that the photo is the start of the first ever historic race in Victoria.
Allan, are the number plates right or wrong?
John,HMRAV might like the photo as a record of how it all started. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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David
Site Administrator
Australia
999 Posts |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2003 : 8:49:18 PM
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Thanks for that David. I don't know how interested the guys are in this stuff, but some of the things that happened that day, sort of set a pattern.
Oszko was working on his bike in the pits and a well known Velocette owner (non-racer) approached him and said 'this really isn't in the spirit of the thing', referring to the fact that he had the fastest manx in Victoria and was a top A grader. Oszko turned around and asked 'do you want a hit in the face?'.
Oszko started the race all fired up, he had been walking around swearing and grizzling about 'having nothing to prove by doing this'.
Steve never raced in another historic event, and only two years ago borrowed back the 350 and rode at the oldies meeting at Mt Gambier.
Unfortunately I haven't got an old 350, so I have lost my chance to have another go at him forever. He still keeps in practice, if you can beat him, you know you've arrived.
I don't know why I'm telling you this, there must be a moral there somewhere. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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