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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
 Posted - 17 May 2003 : 1:03:52 PM
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STAND BY FOR TROUBLE HERE If we permit the use of Molnar Manx's and similiar brand new classic bikes. Why cant we start something using the Indian Royla enfields as a class of their own to perhaps generate spectator interest in a series that anybody can enter for a esonable sum of maoney. I am just trying to stir up trouble with thsi idea.
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2003 : 10:51:00 PM
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John, I have seen the Ray Berry manx with Craig Morris on board and I can only say I'm most impressed. It makes everything else look silly. A while back we talked about a single cylinder class, and you put up the idea of using Indian Enfields. I think it was a good idea, but there should be room for A B and C grade riders. A graders ride Andy Molnar Manxes, C graders ride old sh*t. If you really want a cheap way of beating the Molnar Manxes and George Beale G50s, simply allow the use of speedway motors up to 1980, with alcohol fuel.
It's easy to build something capable of beating Craig Morris if it has four valves, light piston and a decent botom end. Any 1975 Jawa, GM or Godden will do the trick.
It's about time we had a long look at our current mindset. The trouble is that when you've got a bike as fast as the Ray Berry Manx, you might find your limitations very quickly. It's not only the bike that's fast, it's the rider. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2003 : 10:58:43 PM
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John, In the next few weeks I'll be getting a DT500 Jawa engine, and I will be fitting it to the Seeley. I simply want to find out what it is like to ride a Seeley with a fast single cylinder motor. It will become a P5 bike so will have to contend with TZs etc. I don't expect it to be competitive.
Do you think there will be any possibility of being accepted into a race inwhich the Ray Berry Manx is running? |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2003 : 9:29:54 PM
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| The specific point about the Royal Enfields has been missed. I am not talking about the damned Manx's they have enough opportunities already. My suggestion involved the use of the Enfields only in a series exclusively designed to provide racing to spectators and competitors with bikes that look like classics but which can be purchased by anybody today. It would help with the call for reproducing that past with affordable machines, imagine if 20 - 40 of these were on a grid it would sound un real compared with the grids today. the racing could have a greater potential to be close and provide excitement for all, maybe even a sidecar rider. But seriously I have been told we cant use these bikes because they are not really classic and yet most of you solo blokes fall down a pray the very earth a "false Manx' passes over. I belive they modern Manx's have as much right to enter a classic race as a RG500 Suzuki or an Aprilla. So please dont go on about the bloddy Manx's and give me thoughts about the practcallity of trying a differnt series. Would you get involved. And again I dont want to hear about the birth rights of Manx's. I am simply not interested in encouraging them in any new event, others can do that. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2003 : 10:47:22 PM
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John, It's not the bike, it's the bike and rider combination which distinguishes an A grader from a B or C grader. I definitely agree that something like a n Indian Enfield would provide good entry level racing, but what happens when the guys get them going quicker. The obvious thing to do is kick them up a grade and put them at the mercy of Craig Morris.
Old Bob Beanham (Modak) once said to me, he didn't know why anyone needed a bike bigger than 500cc. In those days I was playing with hot 650cc Triumphs. Now I agree with him. I think we'd all be better off racing 500cc aircooled pre unit four strokes.
Incidently an indian enfield costs about $6000, and you can build a decent speedway engined single for that.
While we only encourage one grade of racing in historics the A graders will always make everyone else look silly. You can restrict everyone to BSA Bantams, there will always be an Eric Walsh/Maurie Quincy machine around which will anihilate everyone else. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Allan
Site Moderator
National
599 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2003 : 08:51:18 AM
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 Well i dont know how any body can build a race safe bike for $500 a set of cheap tyres are $300 es every one always fits new tubes each time, alloy rims $400 each new say $150 s/hand , brake linings $100 gee i havent even got a frame ,motor,gear box, come on be true, you can't race, a race worthy bike for $500 even a chain is $100 maybe this is why we see bikes being pushed back to the pits, 'cause they have "old old" second hand "unraceworthy" bits on them?? |
Allan Greening |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2003 : 09:00:18 AM
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Alan I think you are still missing the point. It has been suggestted that we should be providing a spectacle for the paying public who may help finance the sport. Can you stick to the concept of a series with relatively similar machines which may be hotted up to the limit, but at least any body can run them now. I dont want to hear about Manx's just an opinion about this project.
I have advise that a single make event can be run, ie Harley etc, the Enfields are eligigible if they are visually indistinguishable from the earlier ones. If it turned out they were massively changed, we can still run them under the modern rules. What are your thoughts? |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2003 : 5:06:12 PM
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John, even if you specify which bikes are eligible for a certain event, and limit the mods, you will still have a problem. There are guys in the UK who specialise in Royal Enfield (Steve Linsdell, I beieve is one of them). When you get a blue printed motor with minor mods built by one of these guys, it really flies.
I think you'll always have the situation where the smart guys win.
The bucket idea where anyone can purchase someone else's bike for a few hundred dollars, might be one way of dampening enthusiasm towards the big mods. I just don't think it would help the sport and it wouldn't be in the spirit of racing 'back then'.
I agree that we must find a couple of formulae for entry level racing. The clubmans approach is good, however we would have to nominate and exclude certain machines, and tie the formula up fairly tight.
The gokart guys seem to be able to do this, even chambers, jet changes are specified in some classes. A guy I know races these clubmans karts, he doesn't even build his own motor, it takes so little to become uncompetitive.
I suggest we might start a class for SR500 Yamahas, Indian Enfields, BSA B33s, AJS 18s, Matchless G80,but all the British bikes are good restorers and why would you race them? A class for Single cylinder Ducatis would send everyone broke.
Perhaps the answer is to specify totally unmodified Indian Enfields only, but I don't think many of the guys who race already would be interested in spending a couple of thousand dollars for a second hand one - they're just not that good.
A class for beginners could run them, however the only way I can imagine the class becoming popular is, if it was run as 'team races' with each club sponsoring riders and owning the bikes. You could also use the bikes for rider training and competition licence testing (bite my tongue). |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2003 : 8:33:26 PM
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| Well you have some ideas and I was aware of the hot up kits available, but anybody can get them at a reasonable price. The situation of money adding speed will always be around until somebody comes up with a plan that works. How about the bike for sale step it certainly causes problems, but perhaps a handicapping system. At the end of the day we need more bikes and since there is little activity from other readers I reckon I must be one of the few who believe that so it may be some time before I have any thoughts on the matter. I have had some success with attracting attension to sidecar participation and I shall work with that for a while and leave the solos's to themselves. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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