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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Jan 2003 : 12:12:26 PM
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Picking up from an earlier comment from the site I see a need to discuss this matter. The way Historic Road Race meetings have been held in the past, has not drawn any large spectator crowds. I see an opportunity to decrease the cost of racing to members by building the number of the spectators and using the gate takings to cover some of the costs. I want to start discussion and thinking about what we can do to get crowds, do we change our formats for meetings, do we spend money on advertising, do we have trade shows, swap meets etc, do we extend the range of bikes and do we invite other disciplines to the same meeting.ie Classic Trials I am sure if we do not get bigger crowds riders will continue to pay the costs totally . The long term trend if we do not make changes is to have the sport cease.In my own clubs I regularly hear the comment" we just want to race", we may need to do more than that with the increase in licece fees in vic to $350. What are you ideas?
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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David
Site Administrator
Australia
999 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2003 : 12:38:31 PM
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Come on people, now is the time to have your say. John has asked for what you believe is the best approach for Historic/Classic bikes in general, and not just what you want to have. It needs to be for the good of the sport and getting people there.
I am sure there are quite a few people who think they know what should be at the racing. Lets have an open discussion on what you think would increase the sport.
I for one would like to see more advertising of the sport, and this could be supported by sites like this. If there is a major event coming up, let me know and I will create a page and put advertising for it up. Keep in mind, I will not include sponsors names in the advertising, as it would breach my rules, but the race meeting it's self I do not have an issue advertising.
If I don't know it's on, I can not advertise the race meeting for FREE. We at You must be logged in to see this link. are trying to make the sport better for you, but there is only so much that we can do. Now it is up to you the riders to vote on which way you want your sport to go.
So make your feelings known.
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Regards,
David
Webmaster & Owner of Classic Motorcycling Australia
Quote: I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted to be paid. |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2003 : 7:38:18 PM
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I know it's odious to make comparisons, but when you look at the media coverage footisball and criquette get, compared with motorcycling the difference is incredible. Seems to me that when a criquetter hurts his poor little shoulder, or a footisballer dicks his mate's wife, it's news for weeks. The AGP doesn't even seem to be covered by Melbourne TV.
I really think we have to develop a following for our sport. We could start by running the historic championships on a points basis over several events. It seems very unfair that a rider can compete in five or more historic meetings, yet championships are decided on one or two races.
Part of the problem, I believe is that most of the racing is very predictable. The guys with the biggest motors win. I suggest we need a few premier classes, such as the 500cc single and twin cylinder four stroke class (could be known as the Historic 500cc GP class). I believe it's about time we looked at what runs in each capacity class, and design formats which promote fair competition at reasonable cost, yet maintains a good spectacle.
You can race an RS125 for about $6000 outlay and about $5000 dollars more p.a.in running costs for about five meetings, I believe its reasonable to expect competitive historic rides for the same sort of costs. I suggest that if you can't afford to spend the $5000 per year after your initial outlay, forget racing.
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Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2003 : 1:55:04 PM
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Its no good complaining about the coverage footy, swimming and carries get, they pay big bucks for coverage. I think we are daydreaming with such a wish list. I will stick my neck out and say we need a more realistic approach. Accordingly I am publishing a note I sent to the president of the HMRAV
LETS HAVE A FORUM
"I am getting a lot of feedback about Historic racing. There is a small self interested group that want everything set for them to win, there is another group that thinks 2 strokes just suck, another group the reckons 3 cylinders or more are not old enough and others, includeding those damned sidecar blokes who want more sidecars. Somebody reported of a great idea 750cc pushrod that is working and others want the capacity increased to 850cc. Its seemingly impossible to get agreement on the web let alone at a meeting. But it made me think about the merit of running a Forum to seek ideas about improving spectator and rider participation.
If we had a trained facilitator to referee the fights and abuse,it could be a worthwhile thing to do. I would expect it would cost $500-1000 but it may help the club move ahead. We may be able to use the MV rooms, there's a pub over the road to lick any wounds and we would get a written document at the end which would have recommendations for future action."
As you can see I am looking for an effective way to move ahead, what are your thoughts, purely about the Forum concept. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2003 : 4:47:47 PM
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| John, personally, I would like to see a properly chaired conference, with the objective of examining future formats for historic road racing. However I don't think it would be effective without base documents, such as the AHRMA rules, the Inca rules, the MA rules, and written up material on the proposed new formats, to be available to all participants. We need an agenda for the meeting, and a sound chairperson to see the proceedings are democratic. We don't want to end up in a bun fight. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2003 : 5:08:35 PM
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John, I don't think the idea that historic racing could have a following in Australia, as big as footy or cricket, is simply wishful thinking.
In the UK I believe attendances at historic meets are in the thousands. I remember three meetings in Australia which were comparable. They were the Calder and Oran Park Agostini meetings in the early seventies(I didn't know there were so many Italians in Australia), and the Laverton meeting at which Ago, Pileri, and the MVs and Morbidellis were raced here for the first time, and Kenny beat Ago with the new RG Suzukis, and made it big in the international press. I believe Murray Nankervis didn't make a profit on the Laverton meeting, mainly through gross mismanagement, but all the elements for success were there. (Every man and his dog got free tickets).
What I am saying is that, it can be that good. We need mission, vision and values if we are going to do this thing properly. We need to think about 'WHAT COULD BE', and if we fall a bit short, it doesn't really matter. As long as we properly manage the risk in our ventures, we'll do alright.
P.S. I suggest we should ask MA to supply a chairperson for any forum.
Best Regards, |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2003 : 11:44:26 PM
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A couple of points, I have approached the Historic management Committee to see if they could initiate the deal and other clubs, otherwise the HMRAV will probally have to be the one if they agree. Alternatives are welcomed. Secondly, who is going to collate all the rules, but at this stage I feel we may be lucky to just get discussions on general directions at this stage. Once the directions have been agreed to, lets later try for more specific things. I would suggest the more specfic details would need to presented in writing so we get considered presentations. from my observations of MA I feel they may consider this outside their relm, but an approach is worth a try. One advantage of an indepdant Facilitator is that they have no bagage, no preconcieved ideas and no barrows to push, something which is lacking in my opinion. I can tyell you now, I would be surprised if you would get a democratic result anyway because of the predudices everywhere, but we may get agreeance on a general direction. currently I have not found anybody that gives me the same answer to the question, "when do Historics start?"
I think the comment " we need mission, vision and values if we are going to do this thing properly. We need to think about 'WHAT COULD BE" is probally the best we can get and it is a good starting point. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2003 : 3:36:03 PM
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The reason I suggested MA should be asked to provide the chairperson/facilitator, is that whatever rules appear in the MA rule book, are taken as gospel by promoters and riders. MA as the riders union have a vested interest in improving the sport. I suggest it would be an incorrect approach to leave them out of the activity, and anyway why are we paying license fees?
If we can't get the facilitator from MA, I suggest we approach Ball Bearing to do the job. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2003 : 09:06:42 AM
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One would hope that MA would show interest in any forum, and the idea of Ball Bearing sound s worthwhile as well.I suppose the greatest threat we have to the sport is indifference. I note 36 people have viewed these comments but little have commentted. I have seen this standing aside attitude before and I hope if anything comes of the idea. we get greater involvment so we all feel satisfied with the effort and the outcome.
There is no reason we cannot get good crowds and entries, in NZ at Pook a koee, 350 entrants , thousands of spectators. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2003 : 1:58:20 PM
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John, your comment about Pukehoe makes me wonder a bit. I've been to NZ a few times and I get the impression that the merinos aren't that well heeled. Judging by the number of Porsches I see around,I believe there is much more cash available in the Australian Economy, so why are attendances in NZ greater at historic meetings? The law in NZ prohibited/slowed importation of new vehicles for many years, so there are a lot of original fifties and sixties road cars and motorbikes about. This doesn't explain why there are so many original road racing machines there. I believe the purist approach to road racing in NZ appeals to the public, another reason may be the blanket ban on Jap machines in historic events.
Whatever the reason, the NZ scene seems much healthier than that in Australia, and I would expect the opposite to be the case. We must be doing something wrong!
One measure is the fact that the only Inca race to be one by Aus/NZ last year was at Pukehoe and by a New Zealander. No Australian rider has achieved this honour.
I don't believe the poor attendances/support at Australian Historic Road Races has much to do with the wealth of the riders, I believe it is about management of events, and the image of the sport. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2003 : 9:25:22 PM
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| My club did not show a lot of interest in having a forum aboutv the future of Historic Road racing. I mentioned the idea to MA and the lack of support for it \, and MA has decided to run one. There will be a telephone hook up with people next week to determine how such an event could be held without it turning into a punch up about the past. I for one hope that people can behave like sidecar riders and leave the past at the door whislt the future is being determined or discussed. I would hope that a constructive Forum can be run. So perhaps consider some ideas, prepare a paper on the matter and hope we get the opportunity to present them through one way or another. I can say that if people do want to turn it into a blood bath over past events then I cannot see it working and I would not be bothered trying to make it work. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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