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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Nov 2002 : 10:24:22 AM
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Is there and can there be a place for Inca with the more traditional form of racing at the one meeting?
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2002 : 10:35:23 AM
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Here is an extract of the INCA rules etc from the web site
You must be logged in to see this link.
InCA - Sporting and Technical Regulations Index.
Sporting Regulations - extract of principal points
The series will consist of 7 races each of 45 Km with 2 x 30 minute or 3 x 20 minute practice sessions.
It is open to pre '73 production racing motorcycles used in that period of replicas with capacity of 351 - 500cc. Road based models are not permitted.
Strict scrutineering checks for capacity, safety and compliance with technical regulations will be held at each event.
Entry Fee for the series is £300 inc VAT
International FIM licenses are required.
Championship points are awarded as follows.
1st - 25 points 5th - 11 points
2nd - 20 points 6th - 10 points
3rd - 16 points 7th - 9 points
4th - 13 points
• with points down to 15th place.
"Wild Card" - one off entries may be accepted subject to space on the grid. These will be receive championship positions.
Technical Regulations - extract of principle points
Racing Machines of 351cc - 500cc built pre 1973 are permitted but excluding road based models.
Machines showing excessive wear and oil leaks etc will not be accepted.
Original parts or copies are required unless where specified.
In case of copied engines they must feature the same number of valves as original and retain similar external apperance.
Belt driven transmission is permitted.
Ignition type is free.
The use of exotic metal is allowed and encouraged.
There are no weight restrictions.
Treaded tyres are required - wet tyres are not allowed.
Changes of machines will be allowed subject to replacement machines being in compliance and having been scrutineered.
Full copies of the Sporting and Technical Regulations are available from the series organisers.
Is it possible for HMRAV and similiar clubs around austrlia to run a similiar style of race within their normal meetings for these "replica" machines?
Would it help with promotion? |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2002 : 1:25:43 PM
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As I understand it these rules allow use of the 500cc Weslake twin motor ($11,000 New, $3000 second hand)- turns out 60hp on petrol, and the Seeley Mk3 frame (replica costs $3500 landed in Aus.You could copy one for $1500). The gearbox still costs a bit. Wouldn't be hard to build, and anyone starting out could actually be at the top.
Best Regards,
Alan Cotterell |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2002 : 4:22:20 PM
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| I am getting a lot of telephone calls from racers who are not keen to build a machine to compete against Inca's. There are issues to do with use of methanol and Elf fuels as well which do not fit in with FIM and Australian rules. I wonder as a sidecar rider looking on, is there a place for a race involving "replica " machines that comply with something sorted out between Australia and NZ clubs that may race against each other. I can also so that many people have emailed me and made other suggetions about increasing spectator and rider numbers. I shall address those issues on the Promotion forum. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Allan
Site Moderator
National
599 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2002 : 10:28:04 AM
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| Inca should not even be a issue for Australia let inca stop where it is in EU its not for us!! |
Allan Greening |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2002 : 9:47:02 PM
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I'm sorry, but I think Inca is an issue for us while bikes like the Ray Berry manx are permitted to run in the pre62 500cc class. If you think it's not an issue let's change the rules to coincide with those of New Zealand, where the bikes are required to be genuine, not replicas with all the titanium bits and cases , barrels and heads that won't even fit any part of a 1962 Manx.
While you are at it you might tell Barry Sheene to go home next meeting. His bike is worth $80,000.
I've got a question for you guys - what was the fastest ever lap speed for a British single cylinder motorcycle on the Isle of Man, and what was the bike? I'll tell you one thing, it wasn't a manx, and it was well over 100mph.
I suggest there is room for Inca in Australia. The bike type I mentioned above is represented in Australia. And a couple of them are about to be sold back into Europe at the present time. Seems a great pity to me that we are about to lose them, but they are not competitive in any current class here, due to the stupid rules.
Best Regards, |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Former Member
deleted
79 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2002 : 11:35:54 PM
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If someone can afford the alleged $80K for a replica then there should be enough in their other pocket to race it overseas. Anyone who really thinks a class of absolute authentics or loose replicas could survive in Australia is living in fantasy land. Most period bikes racing in Australia are specials and always will be, stop them racing and you will effectively kill the sport, or see the specials racing at separate meetings and its not hard to guess which class would attract the bigger entries.
On the subject of licences, they are probably one of the cheapest outlays for a years racing. And once you've paid for it you naturally want to use it which means more people racing more regularly and that has to be a good thing.
If Barry shows up at the Island in January (and I dearly hope he can) I won't ask him to take his megabike home and I won't chuck a wobbly when he beats me by a mile, he will have enjoyed himself and I will have had a ****load of fun.
Al Kidd |
Al Kidd |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2002 : 09:28:32 AM
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| It seems we are straying a bit. Is the issue that bikes are competing in the same event on unequal terms? If this is so, do we try and separate them into different classes or races or do we have two events within one race, two sets of trophy's and let all race. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2002 : 07:22:07 AM
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I suggest the issue is related to 500cc Post Classic Machines such as the Seeley G50. I own a Seeley with a Norton 850 engine. It isn't really competitive against the big Hondas, and the motor is likely to blow up at any time. I've actually put the gearing right up to 'knock its backside in'.
I've looked at a couple of 750 Weslake engines for about $3000 each, and that seems a better way to go. It would make the bike more competitive (and valuable).
An even better way to go would be to buy a 500cc Weslake twin, however the bike wouldn't be eligible for pre62 racing, and it couldn't compete against a good TR3.
The answer could be to extend the 500cc pre62 class (p3) to include all 500cc British twins and singles. Or include genuine British 500cc racing machines up to 1972.
Seems a pity that the best ever British racing single (Seeley G50)isn't the most competitive bike against the Manxes. There are two of these bikes in Sydney at present, they are about to be sold back to Europe because of this problem. Seems a great pity to lose them, just because we are so inflexible.
The Inca series has no problem running Seeley and Rickman framed G50s and Weslakes against manxes, and I think they even allow single disc brakes on bikes racing against those with drums.
(I wasn't seriously suggesting we should send Bazza or Ray Berry/Craig Morris home. I think they are excellent for the sport. I get the biggest buzz watching Craig Morris race.)
Personally I believe the 500cc P3 class is true classic racing, however it could benefit from what I have said about including a few later 500 racing machines.
Best Regards, |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2002 : 5:28:46 PM
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| Alan I am now confused. Surely playing with classes etc will just open up all sorts of issues. I do not understand what the real issue is. Is the issue that lovely British machines made in the 1962 to 1972 period cannot compete against the "hot" CB 750 Hondas? |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2002 : 7:58:06 PM
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What you say about Britisk machines being unable to compete with the hot CB750s is partly true. The fact is there is no 750 class, so 750 Triumphs & Nortons compete with 1000cc CB750s. It's a minor problem, and Chris Cutler with the 850cc SFC750 Laverda, and the Sydney guy with the really hot Trident are the only ones capable of beating Rex.
For anyone wanting to race a 500cc fourstroke in P4, the situation is hopeless. 450 Ducatis, and Seeley G50's, unit tiger 100's are expensive to build and run,
and although they should be competitive, a Yamaha TR3 on dope makes them look silly. The same happens in P5, how many Ducatis or unit Triumphs have you seen racing? there must be thousands of the heaps, stuck away in garages. If you bring them out any TZ or RD Yamaha will crap all over them.
What I am suggesting is we need to look at ways of making these machines really competitive in at least one class.
The following is a list of bikes which I believe are poorly represented in historic racing, but were excellent racers in their time:
Ducati Pantah 500 and 600
Ducati SS750 (Imola) and 860
Norton Commando
Seeley G50
Seeley Weslake 500 and 750
Ducati Darmah 500
Laverda Montjuich 500
Bultaco 350
Montesa 350
Ossa 250 Phantom
Ossa Yankee
Triumph 750 Bonneville Post 62
Triumph 500 post 62
BSA post 62
Rickman Triumphs post 62 |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2002 : 11:38:46 AM
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| As secretary of the HMRAV I have initiated some internal club discussions to find support for inclusion in our meetings. I shall report back. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2002 : 7:57:10 PM
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John,
I suggest that we should encourage BEARS racing for P4, especially the 500cc capacity class. I think we should do this so that eventually we can compete in international historic events. Inca gives Australian riders to compete against the best. I own a MK3 Seeley, and I am aware of about six others with exactly the same frame. Every one of them has a large Norton twin fitted , except one owned by Greg Van Scoy apparently has a Weslake (Nourish) engine.
Seems a wasted opportunity to use these frames this way, they were intended to have G50 Matchless engines fitted. Any one of these frames fitted with a 500cc Nourish engine would be good enogh to compete with Inca.
Incidently, I have never suggested the New Zealand solution to historic racing, that is ban Japanese bikes, however I think we have to face reality some time. Let's separate some of the racing into Formula (Historic) BEARS and Formula (Historic) Japanese.
You might think I'm a bit taken with Inca racing, however I suggest it is an opportunity to really 'do something' in motorcycle racing. If you win an Inca race you become a bit famous internationally, I really think it's worth doing. Only one guy in New Zealand won a race last year at Pukehoe, it was an original Manx he used, not a replica. Good effort, I say! |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2002 : 08:22:48 AM
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| Does anyone know whether Bob Blythe is still running an Inca meeting at Eastern Creek in February 2003? |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Former Member
deleted
63 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2002 : 10:05:04 PM
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The meeting is still on, however without the INCA runners.
Dont know why they are not racing.
The meeting is changed to attract more P4 & P5 bikes with 3 or 4 x 8 lap races. It seems he is trying to set it up a bit like the Island classic. |
TA |
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Former Member
deleted
79 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2002 : 5:10:14 PM
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| The official reason given was the lack of a suitable sponsor. Presumably there was the need for travel assistance and appearance money. |
Al Kidd |
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